59th Sunday Session – April 27, 1997
Table of contents
Castaneda began, “Good morning!” We responded in kind. He told us, referring to his own group that, “We’re moving very fast–too fast.” He told us the Mexico workshop [April 18-20] “was weird. I was feeling it up here.” In this, one of our last sessions with Castaneda, he seemed to reflect back on his own past even more than usual, including talking about chasing after “the bird of freedom” since 1984.
Ellis’s Fall
He announced, “I thought it was important to let you know why Ellis wasn’t going to be with us. She was taking Prozac. She denies it, but I pulled her aside during a class. I could tell she was bloated and had ‘that voice.’ So I asked her what was going on.” He claimed, “It was something that was going on for a few weeks. I’m sure you could tell it too, if you think back.”
Ellis supposedly told him that all of the calls she had to make every week [apparently she did not refer to the daily ones she had to make for those of us being invited to night sessions] was “overwhelming” for her. He asked her “Why is that so difficult?” She supposedly told him “people were confiding in her.” He claimed, “She had begun to give people advice, and psychic counseling. Why are you confiding in Ellis? Why do you tell Ellis that you masturbate?”
He claimed she never told him what people had been saying, that “she kept it to herself.” In fact, “Darby [later Wilkie] gave her a book of ‘sayings of the Flyers,’ that she had put together and ‘published’ herself, to give to the Nagual, and she never did. She only made one copy of it, but I never saw it. And Rich Jennings gave her books to give to me that I never got. She kept it all. She protected me from what she was hearing. So I’m dying to know what people were telling her.”
Jessica interjected, “Well there were things she was asking about that I didn’t feel comfortable telling her.” Castaneda looked closely at me and said, “I hope you didn’t tell her anything.” He then did the same thing to Victoria.
He claimed, “At some point Ellis will use your material in a book. She’s a writer, you know. I can bet you you’re going to show up in her books.” He claimed that some years before she had asked him what was his favorite dish or recipe. He asked her, “What for?” She told him she was putting together a book of recipes of famous people. He supposedly responded, “I don’t participate in that sort of thing. That’s not the sort of thing I do.” She shrugged back, “Well, I didn’t think there was any harm in asking.”
[Ironic that he tells us about Ellis writing a book here. For Amy Wallace’s take on Castaneda’s accusations about her using Prozac and what he had to say about her in this session in particular, see chapter 33 of her memoir Sorcerer’s Apprentice.]
Carol in ‘Another Place’
He also told us, “Carol is in another place energetically,” indicating that there was something about that fact that was “difficult for me–I’m having trouble reaching her.” He told us that Carol “recently plucked up the Blue Scout.” He indicated that even though he saw “the Blue Scout as being this really tough, thin creature, Carol just picked her up like a cat picking up her kittens ‘by the scruff of the neck,'” and took her somewhere.
Blue Scout Wanting to ‘Go Before Becoming a Drug Addict’
He then referred to something the Blue Scout often apparently told him–to the effect that, “Why don’t we just go now? In a few years I’ll be a drug addict, so why don’t we just go now and get it over with?” He indicated that he didn’t take this comment very seriously.
People ‘Mad’ About Not Getting ‘Personal Attention’
Castaneda told us there were people who were angry they “weren’t getting enough personal attention.” He responded, “Sorry. I’m just not ‘there’ anymore. They should have been around in ’75. Then I had plenty of time. Then I was giving personal attention. But I had to shut down at that point. I haven’t been ‘there’ anymore.”
He also told us someone had “called Brandon Scott and was concerned about a rumor about something I’d said about my doctor. And there are rumors that the Nagual fucks.” He tried for a moment, but could not “remember exactly” what he had said about his doctor. Then he explained, “The reason I say that ‘I don’t fuck’ isn’t because I’m a ball-less little turd. It’s because I don’t have the time. If I had the time then, well . . .,” and he gave a rather lascivious look and gesture that appeared to indicate he would certainly be doing it “if he had the time.” Then he claimed someone complained that some people were “getting fucked” and that they “weren’t getting ‘that kind’ of ‘personal attention.'”
Flyers Trying to Stop Him from Helping Us?
Castaneda seemed to be summarizing that he was “getting a lot of stuff back from the Flyers now.” He suggested, “The Flyers are really trying to stop me from trying to save you from going ‘by default,'” since “I have been really giving the Flyers a run for their money.”
He asked, “What do people expect? I’m some pristine, pious guru or something? That’s not what I am. I’m a man. I piss on spirituality and spirit! That’s not where I am. I’m pragmatic. I’m not your guru. I’m just a lawyer and counselor. All I can do is tell you where to sign the agreement. I know where you can sign-that’s all I know.”
Being ‘Empty’ First Before One Can Enjoy Sex
He continued, “I wasn’t telling you not to have sex because it’s immoral or anything like that. It’s just because you don’t enjoy sex. You’re frigid, so stop doing it. Besides, men don’t like women. And women don’t like men: they’re boring assholes. And men don’t know ultimately know what to do with women. They sit back and smoke a cigarette at the end. The only reason I was saying not to have sex is just that it’s untenable. You get empty and then you can enjoy it to your heart’s content. But you have to be empty first to enjoy it.”
Prozac
He referred again to Ellis’s supposed use of Prozac [she hadn’t been using it by the way, but this is another example of how judgmental and abusive he could be to those closest to him]. He said, “We all have boxes of Valium. There’s a little bottle of Prozac in there too. I sense it among you as well. By using that, she’s into immediate gratification. That’s what she is all about.”
He claimed he “had something on my stomach, so I looked in Taisha’s mirror” and was startled because “my body looked so young.” It caused him to “go into the fetal position and suck my thumb.” He reminded us, “If you suck on the left thumb, that’s for purposefulness. Move the top of the thumb back and forth to massage the palate-‘masturbate the palate’-that’s a substitute for Prozac.”
Running After the ‘Bird of Freedom’ Since 1984
He claimed he had been running after “the bird of freedom since 1984, when la Gorda died.” That was “a big disaster. I’ve been running full speed, trying to get back to the bird of freedom, ever since. I don’t know whether I’m going to make it or not but I’m doing everything I can to return to infinity. I may not make it-so what?–but that’s my fight.”
He asked, “Do you think this body grows on trees? I could be ninety, teetering, and just keep myself medicated, going from ice cream to ice cream, or tequila to tequila. What’s the use of that? I’m your counselor and I’m going this way. [He motioned to his left.] You can follow.”
Katha Pollitt on Heaven’s Gate Suicides
He asked if we had read The Nation. He said he was going to have an article from it copied for us “at Cleargreen’s expense” [Katha Pollitt’s “Heaven Can Wait,” reflecting on the Heaven’s Gate suicides, from the issue pre-dated April 28, 1997]. He told us the article “compares the tenets and beliefs of the suicide cult to those of Roman Catholicism, as being a ‘benign’ set of beliefs. And also the beliefs of those who take the Bible literally.” He indicated the author was showing that it is only society’s bias that says the irrational beliefs of Roman Catholicism or fundamentalists are “more benign” than those of smaller, upstart cults. He also opined the article was “well written.”
Movement Instruction
The first pass we did involved poking forward with the fingers in a claw position, and then pulling straight down from there. Castaneda showed us how, in a similar way, the clawed fingers could be used to poke into the fleshy part, just above the bone, of the top of someone’s shoulder, as “a good way to help someone who has a sore shoulder or sore neck.” Castaneda demonstrated this on Madeleine.
Then there were four passes he started showing us, and then had Kylie continue to lead. He reminded her, “We did them the other night.” She at first thought he was referring to the Heat Series, but he told her “No. The Left and Right Sides.”
The first one started by bringing the arm up and grabbing it into a fist when it is at about shoulder height, and then letting it drop again. He told us to focus on using the stomach muscles. The second one involved bringing the arm from one side of the body across to the other, grabbing, and then pulling it back across the body. Squeezing the fist is supposed to “naturally propel” the arm back across.
Next was “elbowing backward,” starting with the palm up and rotating the palm downward and then moving the arm out to the side.
The fourth started with the arm down to the side along the thigh. You pull up slowly and then quickly jerk the arm up and rotate it, pressing it up into a fist at the side of the head.
Kylie’s Driving
When Kylie mistakenly started showing us the fourth movement instead of the third one, Castaneda informed us, “Kylie has no sense of direction.” He told us they were driving that week from somewhere toward downtown, to a Mexican restaurant. He was “sitting in the back, singing an opera I’d made up. Kylie and Talia were sitting in the front.” He claimed Kylie “just continued on until they were on the 101 Freeway past Ventura.” Kylie asked him, “What exit is it?” He responded, “Broadway.” She called back, “There’s no Broadway!”
He looked around and could see that they were, by then, in Camarillo, and got the idea “they were taking me to the men’s insane asylum there, to have me committed. They’re going to tell me, ‘Here’s a nice place to eat. It maybe cafeteria style, but it’s good. And here are these nice uniforms.’ And I’m supposed to say, “Oh, yeah. Okay.”
It took them “forever” to get back on the freeway going south–he claimed, “We drove for fifty miles trying to get turned around”–and he was super angry. It took so long for them to get back that he “didn’t care where I was at that point.” He told us, “I got angry like short men do, and kicked the door.” He claimed, “If I were taller, I could take it with no problem. But short people get angry like that.” So by the time they got to their restaurant “it was too late; it was closed. So we went there the next day and it was delicious–it was so good!” [Kylie interjected her confirmation, offering that “We were dreaming about it.”] He continued, “Even after we left we wanted to keep eating. I was so embarrassed at these two big women eating so much that I just turned to the side to enjoy eating by myself.”
He suggested, “We should all go there. Let’s have an expedition there!” He couldn’t remember the name of the restaurant, and told us he would have to draw us “an occasional map” to show us how to get there–that it “was complicated.”
His ‘Oedipal Complex’
He told us he had had “an Oedipal complex.” He claimed his mother–the one who was supposedly “a revolutionary,” who “kept a luger under her bed”–“died when I was six. When I was seven in Brazil they brought this woman to me and told me she was my mother. She was gorgeous. She had great legs. She was twenty-two, and I would chase her around. So I acted out my Oedipal complex.” He suggested to us to do the same thing. “Find a woman to act it out with.” He indicated this was “better than repressing it,” and that that was “why I don’t have it anymore.”
Stomach Scars
He told us that “any kind of cuts or scars in the stomach are a problem-they need to be worked on.” Madeleine asked, “What about an appendix scar?” He said, “Yes.” She asked, “Even an old one?” He responded, “Old ones are worse.” It turned out there were a few people in the class, including J and T, who had had appendicitis.
He was asked whether it was the same “with vertical scars?” He responded, “Yeah.” [But then he got “vertical” and “horizontal” confused for a moment.] He asked, “Who else has scars?” I raised my hand [on account of a very recent hernia operation, in the same place where he had previously indicated he had his]. Talia at the same time said, “Rich.”
Castaneda explained, “The whole stomach area, and around the groin too, should be ‘the Gobi Desert.’ It should be completely ‘clean.’ Having cuts and incisions in the stomach leads to a blockage at some point.”
He indicated that that was what had affected his eyes. “I can still see, but not much detail.” He joked that that was why he didn’t drive, “sS at least I’m not in the front seat wanting to kill the driver in front of me.”
He told us there were two ways to work with such scars. “One is Tensegrity, but you have to do it regularly. You can’t just do it once a week. A lot of you just do it once a week here. You have to do it regularly. The other way is acupuncture.”
Acupuncture
He told us, “I don’t know who to suggest to do acupuncture.” Victoria piped up, suggesting her then husband, “Paul. He’s going through an acupuncture program. He’s not licensed yet.” She also asked, “Acupuncture with needles?” Castaneda heard her saying, “Evil acupuncture.” He then told us he was “imagining Paul taking a lance, or something, and plunging it into the patient. ‘Evil’ acupuncture.”
Recapitulation Advice
He also reminded us to recap, “even if only five minutes. Not to do an apologetic–some people do an ‘apologetic’ recap–just a brief, but not complete one, to say they’re ‘sorry’ for certain aspects of their life. They don’t see how fucked up they are. They think they’re basically okay. Do the recapping and see when did they put this stuff on you.”
Daniel asked, “If you are recapping and something from the Flyer’s Mind comes up, some weird thoughts, do you stop recapping or do you just go with it?” Castaneda responded, “Hmmmm. It’s just the Flyers getting in the way. Just go with it and return to recapping.”
Sending a Blast to Ellis
At the end, he told us, “We’re going to take a week and devote it to Ellis–we’ll send her a big blast of energy to help her on her way.”
He further commented, “I’m her only shot at freedom, but she doesn’t seem to care. She ‘falls’ and walks away from it. It’s like a knife in my chest. I’m bleeding here from it. It was her and there was one other who did it to me too. [Virginia]”
Being Great at Things, After Getting ‘Empty’
He asked, “What else is there for us in life but freedom [and] returning to infinity? What are we saving ourselves for?” He looked over at Madeline and asked, “To have this great career? To be an engineer? You could be a good engineer once you are empty.” Then he looked at me and asked, “To be a great lawyer? Rich will be a great lawyer some day, when it doesn’t matter to him and he’s empty. He can reach out and grab the answer that he needs.” [He mimicked me walking into court and telling the judge, “It’s like this your honor,” acting very tough.] “A great lawyer, or a bad lawyer, it doesn’t matter. Or a great physicist. Here’s Madeleine, she’s a physicist. She can actually see the cosmos as it is.”
“I don’t have the training. I get answers but I don’t have the training to deal with it. I don’t have the engineering training, or the legal training, if it’s a legal answer.”
“People who believe in the Bible or God think that the Lord has come down and kissed them. I’d rather not have a man kiss me. I’d tell him to ‘send in the Virgin.’ I’d kiss her.”
The Importance of Tightening the Shoulders
He told us “Our current expectation is that we’ll get together next week.” Then he stayed around for awhile listening to Madeleine tell him about having seen something. That prompted him to tell us, “I have a formation for you. I’ll bring it in next week. Maybe we can trap a flyer–then we can see one. The important thing is your shoulders. The shoulders have to be strong to withstand the impact.” He showed us how to stand with our shoulders “tightened up,” and claimed “when something hits, that’s the position I take, so it just flows through the body.”
Bunny asked about how to react to the “vibration” coming toward us he had previously described: “Are you supposed to turn to the side? How are you supposed to deal with it.” Castaneda responded, “Yeah, you’re supposed to turn. So that it comes to a certain point and doesn’t come all over you. It’s to get your attention that you need to make changes.”
Not Wanting to Work on Catalogs All His Life
That led him to reminisce: “When I was married, I really liked my mother-in-law, Mrs. Pearlman. I would sit in her kitchen and she would fix me coffee and pie and I would talk and bullshit until I was tickled pink. But I was getting nowhere. I was working on this big catalog–Summer, Fall–and it was taking up my life. I talked to the Nagual who told me I had to get out of there. I told him I couldn’t. ‘How can I?’ Then, suddenly, it hit me in the middle of the night–I was going to be working on catalogs the rest of my life! It came rolling toward me. So I turned.”
[This was a smaller crowd than usual. On hand from Cleargreen were Kylie, Talia, Grant, Margarita and Thurney (the “Moon Child”). The Orange Scout, aka “the Leperchun,” came in late. Missing from the usual Sunday contingent were Virginia and Jennih–who had been told that week there was no class–and Gigi, who had let it be known she was no longer going to attend “for awhile.” Thornton was also out of town, and Marcos (later LeRoy) and Leigh were otherwise engaged (Leigh having been “carjacked” in Mexico, which caused him to miss his flight back).]
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