The Nagualist Newsletter and Open Forum / Issue 5 February / March 1995
Copyright 1995 by Nagualist Newsletter, all rights reserved. Individual submissions by readers and staff of the newsletter are also protected under copyright law. No portion may be reproduced without the written permission of the Nagualist Newsletter and of the individual who made the submission. Additional copies may be available at no charge.

When it comes to self importance, you have to watch yourself at every turn. At the newsletter, we'd turned into lecture note collectors, hoping for a complete collection. I can't imagine what kind of ego satisfaction that gave us, but it certainly was there. Thus we were quite pleased when we finally received notes on the Maui lecture. My own feeling was that we'd successfully covered the lecture series. In the back of my mind I had mentally kept track of all events mentioned so far. While we couldn't get permission to share the 2 radio interviews (one with Taisha and one with Florinda) we at least had gotten the notes. That left only the lecture at the Sony building, and the TV interview in Sedona.

I couldn't have been more wrong! We held up this issue waiting for a couple of things, one being the information from Merilyn. In the meantime, some surprising facts surfaced.

Another reader sent in a transcript of the radio interview with Taisha, saying "I know you already have this, but something told me to send it anyway. Wouldn't it be a trip if it turned out to be a different radio interview?" Well darned if it didn't! Considering how obscure radio interviews can be, who knows how many of them have been done by the witches. The unique thing about this particular interview was that it was designed to be for someone with absolutely no knowledge about this topic. It almost seemed like Taisha was trying to interest people who had never read any of Carlos' books.

Then a reader reported that Carlos had done a TV interview in Italy. None of our Italian readers had seen it, so we couldn't get any more info. But one reader from Verona, Italy reported that he had found out about a 1993 lecture from an advertisement in Shaman's Drum magazine. Another reader from Spain reported (in spanish) that the sorcery passes had been taught there. I believe he called them "tenseguridad".

It seems that Carlos and the Witches have quite a random plan, involving impromptu meetings and lectures and interviews throughout all kinds of media, world wide. Remember their cryptic remarks about the difficulties spreading the word in South America? One reader expressed exasperation at it all, stating that perhaps they were trying to dissipate interest by all this randomness. I see it as quite the opposite. They are truly trying to build momentum with a shotgun approach. Spray the seeds all over, and a few might take root. Plant them all in one place and you risk rot.

In the last few days before publication, we received these wonderful notes detailing a secretive meeting with Carlos and a group of about 100.

Dec 3rd 1994, Sunnyvale CA...

I listened to the lecture without taking notes. Then later, as I drove home, I wrote as much as I could down.

First, CC is short and homely (don Juan's description). I didn't know which person was CC until everyone sat down. The lecture was humorous, and of course riveting. Instead of pre-written notes, he went on a question and answer system.

First question, "What happens at death?"

"I have spent my whole life preparing for that moment.

"Everything that you and I can talk about is conjecture. No one has experienced it and is able to talk about it.

"We are bound by the syntax of language.

"Language cannot describe seeing, so we do not even know it exists.

"Don Juan's primary goal was internal silence.

"Each person has a personal threshold to see. 15 minutes, 6 hours - whatever. Build your internal silence to reach that threshold.

"You can work on that threshold 1 second at a time - relentlessly everyday. Then you will see.

"We are bound by the syntax of language. Once we stop the internal dialogue we are not bound by syntax - our awareness is open to the perceptions of infinity.

"My personal time limit was 6 seconds. Then a voice would start talking.

"Then one day, while out walking at UCLA, I saw lines of energy imposed on everything. I realized that I had always seen them, but had ignored them.

"By stopping the internal dialogue you allow the world to collapse. Then you can see.

"Internal dialogue supports and reinforces the world as we live it. If we stop talking to ourselves, we are able to perceive without influence of the ME, self importance.

"If you stop your internal dialogue, collapse the world and then see, then when I come back next year we will be able to talk shop.

These comments were heavily influenced with wise cracking jokes especially about:

"Don't deify me. I don't want to be your guru.

"Don't deify anyone. Don Juan tore down everyone, even Jesus, and I liked Jesus.

"He especially tore down my self importance. He asked me what were my bad points. As I pondered the question, he said, "How about, you're short and homely?"

"Don Juan said there were 3 types of people on earth: 
1. A Piss. Warm and feels good but doesn't quench your thirst. 
2. A Fart. "I'm bigger and better than you." 
3. A Puke. "I will if you beg me."

"Don Juan called me, "Mr. Nightmare". I was a FART.

"The spirit forced me on don Juan. He had to be at his very best with me because I was so bad.

"Don Juan had to brace himself when he saw me coming.

"We would rather be miserable than to change and be inconvenienced.

"Don Juan asked, "What do you want out of life?" Carlos related how he made a perplexed face to which don Juan responded, "Oh! You poor baby!"

"Sorcery gives you the opportunity to choose beyond life.

"What do you want? Retirement? Don't buy into it. It is a boring, preset, structured end of life.

"I hate to fish. I don't want to retire to Montana or Idaho and go fishing.

"I want to navigate infinity, to perceive infinity.

"Don't buy retirement, the perceptions of infinity are an inconceivable choice.

(From audience:) "Is the second attention unique for each person?"

"No, it is the same for all of us."

(From audience:) "The left side seems very dangerous. What protects us?"

"Yes, it is very dangerous. The discipline of stopping the internal dialogue protects you, not only on the left side, but also here on the right side. There is an incredible amount of traffic from the left side to the right side. Inorganic beings feed on our awareness, leaving only enough for maintaining our self importance.

"The Dali Lama was in Mexico at the pyramids for a gigantic gathering. One of his assistants (local) was taking photos with a motor drive camera, and a center photo in a group of 3 had an object flying through the air that was not in the other frames. I had heard of these things, but had never seen one. They are `fliers' and were there to feed on awareness.

"CC, FDG, CT, TA are all equals at navigating the left side.

"Since it isn't possible to talk about it they go to movies and talk about them."

(From audience:) "What brings joy to the Navigator?"


"Internal silence is the only way to venture into the left side.

"When on the left side, our perception/awareness increases and expands."

(From audience:) "I was at the 3rd gate of dreaming..."

"NO! It would be nearly impossible without internal silence. Stop your internal dialogue and you will get there."

(From audience:) "Do we need power plants?"

"NO! Absolutely not. I was raised to be exactly like my grandfather. My assemblage point was inflexible and needed power plants to move it. You don't."

The audience brought up the subject of healing. There appeared to be a distinction between medical healing, -fixing symptoms, and energetic healing.

CC described a concept of groves of perception and the idea that one can change perception by changing grooves. Healing could only occur if one could change groves. To be able to heal you must also be able to change grooves.

CC nearly died 3 times, but each time when near to death his body was forced to change grooves, thereby healing itself. The body was stronger with each change of groove.

Tensegrity or sorcery passes:

"We must be in good physical shape.

"Tensegrity - the word is related to architecture.

"This is a system of exercises related to the glandular system which will strengthen and awaken that system.

"The glandular system is unused - It wakes up the glands.

"The womb is like another brain in that when you see the womb, the energy flowing from there is the same energy flow as that from the brain."

(From audience:)"Can we change the world?"

"Instead of wanting for ME, intend internal silence for ME. That would really change the world.

"We have no control over anything in life. We pretend we're in control."

POEM (a rough version):

We are standing on the heart of the earth
in a ray of sunshine and suddenly it is night.

"The other sorcerers are all doing fine living good lives, but would not follow me. When I was taking over I told them they would have to go to school and study "heavy text". They refused. Heavy text trains the mind and allows internal silence easier.

"I am a super pragmatist."

(From audience:)"How do you burn from within?"

"If I knew, would I be standing here?" (joking) "Don Juan burned with an incredible implosion of energy as he held his awareness in his hands. Then he took off like a bullet."

(A very dramatic revelation at the end:)

"A while ago my emissary, or voice of seeing, stopped. This is after 35 years. Now I'm navigating alone, without a guide. This is allright (appeared most disturbed). Imagine, I never said thank you. So now I talk to pay back some of this incredible gift. To say thank you." (In a flash he went from nearly a tear in his eye to a broad simile).

He then casually mentioned he needed to use the restroom in a very humble manner. And before anyone could say thank you - or clap - he was whisked out the back door. `Poof.'

Carlos left quickly with a small entourage of which two were very youthful energetic people, 25 to 35 years old, who I understand may be in the Tensegrity video.

The lecture was approximately 21/4 hours long. About 100 people attended. And it was very secretive.

Source: Withheld

Nagualist Newsletter/ Issue 5 February/ March 1995